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referral epr

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:23 am
i recently got a referral 4 on my epr (new epr setup). i failed my CDCs on day 1, day 15 my initial epr was due, on day 30 i restested and passed. has anyone heard of getting eprs pushed back? i was told to write a rebuttal to get rid of the referral part. how would i word a rebuttal to that? i am horrible with words. i was told by my supervisor it was all due to timing. my flight commander and flight sup fought for me but my chief wouldnt push it back 2 weeks to let my epr reflect my passing grade. any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:49 am
Speak with your supervisor and super about how to write an appropriate rebuttal to your situation. In the grand scheme of things a 4 EPR is not terrible and it won't drastically affect your promotion score for when you test for SSgt so long as you put a little extra effort into studying your CDC's and PFE (or whatever its called now).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:55 am
Z wrote:Speak with your supervisor and super about how to write an appropriate rebuttal to your situation. In the grand scheme of things a 4 EPR is not terrible and it won't drastically affect your promotion score for when you test for SSgt so long as you put a little extra effort into studying your CDC's and PFE (or whatever its called now).


PFE is now a PDG ... Proffesional Development Guide
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:03 am
hope your not planning on testing soon, cant test with a referal.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:37 pm
Run, don't walk to the Area Defense Counsel. Tell them you need help preparing matters for a referral EPR.

The referral EPR does 3 things to you; no testing for promotion, no PCS and your CC will consider it when making SRB decisions. Now, once you have a non-referral 3 or higher EPR on top, those bad things go away. However, I think the Chief was being overly harsh by making it a referral. IMO, it should have been an overall 4 (at best) and be done with it. But, because learning your job is the most important thing and you hosed your EOC, be glad you didn't get a 3.

As for extending the EPR closeout, only AFPC can approve a closeout date extension. Not your Chief, not your CC. The CC requests it with an info copy to your MAJCOM, but AFPC makes the approval. Based on what you said here, I wouldn't have supported pushing the closeout either. Seems to me you simply blew off studying and failed your EOC.

BTW, you have 10 calander days to submit matter for consideration. The 10 days starts when you receive a copy of the EPR and the letter from the person referring the EPR...rater, add'l rater or CC.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:02 pm
scoobpoc wrote:i recently got a referral 4 on my epr (new epr setup). i failed my CDCs on day 1, day 15 my initial epr was due, on day 30 i restested and passed. has anyone heard of getting eprs pushed back? i was told to write a rebuttal to get rid of the referral part. how would i word a rebuttal to that? i am horrible with words. i was told by my supervisor it was all due to timing. my flight commander and flight sup fought for me but my chief wouldnt push it back 2 weeks to let my epr reflect my passing grade. any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks


I have not heard of this Referral EPR for a 4 with the new system, but if you failed your CDC's I don't think you have any right to try to fight what you got on your EPR regardless of if you passed the second time or not. If you would have applied yourself the 1st time you tested you would not have failed. Sometimes it would be nice to hear someone say... "Hmm I f***ed up and I really deserve my punishment." Instead of bitching all the time about how they were screwed.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:47 pm
If you failed your CDC's and then passed within the same rating period it shouldn't be the reason you got the referal. You met the AF standards by passing he test. Goes along the same lines as the PT test, if you fail it, then pass the next time around they can't hold it against you on your EPR. If that truly is the reason for the referal I would go to ADC as soon as I could to see what the next step in the process is.

The AF gives a retest for a reason, any number of factors could play into you not passing the test the first go around, and since you passed on the retest you have met the standards the AF set in place. In my mind that does not eaqual a referal. A 4 definately, but not a referal. Go to ADC and see what they say, don't take the word of someone on a message board concerning your AF career.

Edit: I didn't see that your EPR closed out 15 days after the fail, if that's the case then you may not have a leg to stand on. Still I would go talk to a lawyer and see what your options are.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 pm
I'm assuming you got marked down in the Training requirements section. If that is the case, you should attempt to find out if the other things to be considered (ancillary trng, OJT) actually were figured into the mix or was just the CDC EOC failure. You may be able to get someone in the chain to see that if all are considered, you "meet" Training requirements. It will probably be a hard sell, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:43 pm
suck it up and press on, barring a death in the family, or severe illness putting you in the hospital for an extended period of time AND incompasitating you to the point you can't lift a book and read it, take your licks and move on.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:57 am
Request a Command-Directed EPR in 45 days to remove your referral EPR status, even if you get a 4 at least it won't be a Referral 4. I was given one of these due to deception and fraud and a weak chain of command with no hope of fighting it (thanks USTRANSCOM!). Only ADC had my side, and assisted me greatly in my rebuttal. Referral EPR even with a 4 rating leaves you in a purgatory state, as stated by other posters, no WAPS eligibility, no re-enlistment eligibility, no PCS eligibility. Don't let it go to record without some sort of statement from you attached and get ADC to help keep your head cool and your response sensible. Once it goes to record, immediately check your records to ensure your comments/rebuttal remained attached. My POS supervisor tried to slide it by without my rebuttal...I just hope karma fasttracks its way to her instead of waiting it out... :twisted:
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:47 am
home_skillet220 wrote:
scoobpoc wrote:i recently got a referral 4 on my epr (new epr setup). i failed my CDCs on day 1, day 15 my initial epr was due, on day 30 i restested and passed. has anyone heard of getting eprs pushed back? i was told to write a rebuttal to get rid of the referral part. how would i word a rebuttal to that? i am horrible with words. i was told by my supervisor it was all due to timing. my flight commander and flight sup fought for me but my chief wouldnt push it back 2 weeks to let my epr reflect my passing grade. any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks


I have not heard of this Referral EPR for a 4 with the new system, but if you failed your CDC's I don't think you have any right to try to fight what you got on your EPR regardless of if you passed the second time or not. If you would have applied yourself the 1st time you tested you would not have failed. Sometimes it would be nice to hear someone say... "Hmm I f***ed up and I really deserve my punishment." Instead of bitching all the time about how they were screwed.


A referral 4???? Makes no sense. That should have been lower for a referral I think, what next, referral 5? Who in the chain decided that?
Also, did your chain tell you what your options were and the time frame available?

Skillet..Does this guy always come here to whine about this problem?
Does this guy deserve a referral 4 for failing something that allows a retest? Do you know why he failed the first time? Why would he not have a right to counter, if the process is in place to do such a thing?

I fear for the Airmen you have to/will rate.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:54 am
DEISEL wrote:suck it up and press on, barring a death in the family, or severe illness putting you in the hospital for an extended period of time AND incompasitating you to the point you can't lift a book and read it, take your licks and move on.


Wonderful advice. You should write a column.
:roll:

No idea why he screwed the pooch the first time, the fact is he passed. If he had some other issues that warranted a referral then fine. Otherwise, there is a reason they let you retake the EOC, promotion tests, etc.

I passed the 2E2 cdc EOC's first time out. I do understand though that some people suck at taking tests. Ain't nothing wrong with doing a retake.

There had to be other reasons for this referral.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:02 pm
i'm sure were not getting the whole story on this website, to do that, we'd neeed to get his side, his supervisors, the chief's, etc. plus if he's just taking his cdc's (first term?), then he doesnt need to worry about pcsing or putting on rank any time soon. As soon as he has another epr done wehter it be routine or directed, he should be good as long as it isnt referral
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:16 pm
chibimaru wrote:Request a Command-Directed EPR in 45 days to remove your referral EPR status, even if you get a 4 at least it won't be a Referral 4.
You mean 120 days, right? And, just because he asks for one, doesn't mean he'll get it. 60 days supervision is the minimum time for a CC directed EPR and only then if going on or coming off a Control Roster or for BTZ consideration (directed by HAF). Nearly all others is 120 days supervision. But, you have the right idea. If his supervisors think he's worth the trouble, they've already talked about how to bury the referral.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:51 pm
Tink wrote:A referral 4???? Makes no sense. That should have been lower for a referral I think, what next, referral 5? Who in the chain decided that?


I got a referral 4 on my past EPR, the old ones. I had a derogatory comment on mine, which automatically makes it referral. I got an article 15, which resulted in a referral 4 EPR.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:49 pm
DEISEL wrote:i'm sure were not getting the whole story on this website, to do that, we'd neeed to get his side, his supervisors, the chief's, etc. plus if he's just taking his cdc's (first term?), then he doesnt need to worry about pcsing or putting on rank any time soon. As soon as he has another epr done wehter it be routine or directed, he should be good as long as it isnt referral


True that, Unless he's within a year of reenlistment I wouldn't think a referral would have much of an impact. Sounds like this is his first EPR. I don't see BTZ in his future, but it shouldn't impact him other than lower points when he tests for staff the first time, but a regular old run of the mill 4 would have the same effect. I'd still talk to ADC and find out what the options are.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:46 pm
Come on. What does it take to pass these tests??? 65!!! Ouch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:50 pm
wildcats_14 wrote:Come on. What does it take to pass these tests??? 65!!! Ouch


Yeah, it really isn't hard.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:52 am
He probably has at least two more EPRs in his enlistment before CJR time comes rolling around for him. So long as he learns from this, accepts responsibility for his actions or rather inactions, and makes a conscientious effort to improve himself to meet AF standards, he should do well. I've worked for a lot of great bosses that have had hiccups in their careers, and all they did was learn from their mistakes, and made sure to be better people because of those mistakes.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:33 am
home_skillet220 wrote:I have not heard of this Referral EPR for a 4 with the new system, but if you failed your CDC's I don't think you have any right to try to fight what you got on your EPR regardless of if you passed the second time or not. If you would have applied yourself the 1st time you tested you would not have failed. Sometimes it would be nice to hear someone say... "Hmm I f***ed up and I really deserve my punishment." Instead of bitching all the time about how they were screwed.


same goes for all the fat NCOs that cant pass their PT test, why extend there test dates? i have orders to leave in febraury already. my supervisor said he would give me another epr before i leave, and i should try and get one once i get to my gaining base. my epr said failed to meet training requirements and thats what made it a referral. in the same section it said great things about training, i dont believe it was equally weighed. also the rest of my epr is exceeds, above avg, and meets. i am not a bad troop, just a bad test taker. i hate the people that come in here and bash on someone when they dont know the whole story. if you dont have something to say that is going to help, dont say it, it wastes your time and mine. i dont like how this ended up because no one else that i know that failed is getting a referral 4 on their epr. as far as the 10 days that its due, i still have time, i am just horrible with words and all i asked in my original post was for some advice on writing this.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:48 am
Why don't you give us the full story then?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:05 am
what do you want to know?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:28 am
scoobpoc wrote: i dont like how this ended up because no one else that i know that failed is getting a referral 4 on their epr.
You're saying others in YOUR unit failed their EOC and didn't get a referral?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:29 am
Did you go to ADC like 90% of the peopl ethat are trying to help you said? If not, log off your computer and hit the road.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:29 am
scoobpoc wrote:what do you want to know?
Did you put an honest effort into studying for the test?
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