Don't get me wrong other than for ousting career politicians I see no good coming of passing Obamacare.

But, why don't they just outright state no federal funds will be spent on abortions except in medical emergency instances and rape. Then offer full funding for sterilization or temporary/reversible fertility prevention procedures. i.e, IUD or zero patient responsibility birth control (like Depo-Provera or birth control implants)

Why is it that abortion seems to be the only way in some people's minds of stopping an unwanted pregnancy? What about prevention? What about fixing the problem of unprotected sex amongst young people?

---edit----------------------

Oops forgot to add link to article involving Stupak's relation to this.

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/08/a ... care-deal/

They already do, but that would require you to read more than one news source.... faux news.

I'm about freakin' sick of this whole "debate". It's more like name calling and parroting. Go ahead Repubs, sell us out to the highest bidder... let's just get this sh*t over with.

How are the Repubs doing anything when the Dems have the majority and The White House has circumvented the Repubs altogether? The ones holding up the passage now are the Anti-abortion funding Dems.

If I'm paying for murder I should get to go rent a lifer from prison to shoot at all day. At least let me have fun with it.

The way I see it the amount of money we'd save by not feeding and housing a prisoner for 30 more years is much cheaper than sucking a fetus out of some ho's cooch. We'd almost make money. Not to mention how much the cost of renting the prisoner would be. Then again, funding more abortions would lead to less people in prison after a generation or so. So this would only be a temporary fix. However it works, we get to kill somebody who is/well be a bane of society.

/end extremist sarc

Don't know, don't care. I shouldn't have mentioned parties in that last post and just kept it short and sweet. I'm sick of this whole debate. It's talking point after talking point and emotionally draining. Honestly, I'm starting to getting angry everytime it comes up.

Yesterday at the smoke pit, we were all talking about different things when this one guy blurts "and what about this bill that they are trying to ram down Americans' throats?!!"

I just looked at him and said something like "It's good to know that you can repeat talking points, a year of debate isn't "ramming" anything." Then I proceeded to suggest that people who think that way are morons, or something to that effect. It just isn't me. I have never cared that much about an issue to really get angry at someone (which I was and instantly). I'm wondering if it really is that I care, or that this debate has been hyped, and sensationalized to the point where you feel that you have to take sides and defend your position.

I don't know. This has been the most devisive thing that I have every seen in the country, even more that the Iraq war. Makes me want to move.

Morally I am opposed to abortion other than lifesaving/rape situations.
Politically I am pro-choice in that this is an issue that should be pushed back to the states (overturn Roe v Wade) so that the citizens of each state can vote their conscience on the matter. I would imagine that more responsible application of abortion laws would result. From there if a movement could get it submitted as an amendment to the constitution have at it.
If the majority of a state's citizens opts for a position on abortion that I don't agree with I always have the option to move to a state that has a position more in line with my beliefs.

Shilo I too hate the people who hate it simply because they don't know anything about. I hate it, but I know why I don't like it. They're not ramming it down our throats, if they were we'd have it by now.

Once again, my primary reason for hating it is paying for things I don't morally agree with, be it abortion or paying to support those who don't benefit our society at all.

I don't believe our lower class is struggling that bad since one of the main ailments that affects them is obesity. How can you be dirt poor, but 400 pounds? Then expect me to pay your hospital bills.

The ramming down our throats comments don't come from the amount of time spent on the bill but instead now how they are trying to get it passed. You obviously were speaking with someone who just regurgitates what he hears on Fox News.

I consider these type of people non-politicals who have taken the hype bait hook line and sinker. Sadly this is what is needed by both sides if they want to sway popular opinion to their side. Why because everyone has a vote when it comes re-election time.

I'm sick of the debate too. Hence why I suggested a simple and easy fix that would get their precious bill past the pro-life democrats. But we all know (at least those of us who follow politics quite closely) exactly why the simple solutions will never happen. And furthermore why both the career politicians both rePUBICans and DUMBocrats combined work against each other in order to support each other. That's not to say there are not honest politicians but they quickly give in to the dark side, as can be seen by Scott Brown now campaigning for John McCain and the ongoing Sarah Palin saga too for that matter.

To be honest my intent of this topic was to discuss the idiocy of both sides not taking the simple steps necessary to construct something that would actually help fix the healthcare issues in America. ie skyrocketing premiums and little to no affordable access for the middle class. The lower class already has medicaid. I also don't think medical care is a right, when as already mentioned half of your medical problems come from your obesity, spend less money on your flat screen tv's and all those damn pizza's you're shoving in your pie hole while glued to the seat in front of that expensive A$$ TV and maybe you could buy medical coverage and those people contributing to medical coverage industry would help slow the rise of premiums. Oh but they can't get on cause they already have diabetes and that's a preexisting condition, right? Well guess what they could still pay for insurance and be covered for all the other stuff that will come up later in life, that's just an excuse to keep spending money on their greedy competing with the Joneses CRAP they don't need.

Oh and I was also running a little social experiment to see how many people would completely avoid this topic altogether just because of the abortion bait in the middle of the bear trap.

(On a personal note Shilo, you should try and not let it get to you. Especially try and not get angry over it. As someone much wiser than me once told me, "Where is the gain or use in getting angry over things you have no control over?" "It only leads to pushing you further from the rest of human kind" ie if you let anger like that eat at you long enough you end being the next Unibomber.)

Ok, someone needed to say it, might as well be me.



How is this murder when there is no life being removed? If you consider the unborn fetus alive then you have to feel the same about miscarriages. Also if this was murder then it would be illegal. Its not murder and people only say it because just using the word makes the act seem evil or wrong.

THIS! Why is the problem only a problem after the act has happened, prevent the sourse and that will reduce unwanted pregnancies before they happen.

How is this any different to the unborn fetus?

I can be "morally opposed" to abortion in almost all situations but when it comes to lifesaving/rape I cannot claim to be God, nor am I female therefore I cannot make a judgment on either. If a mother dies so her unborn child can be born, leaving behind children or family she has responsibilities to is that the moral course of action? That is quite different than someone becoming pregnant and terminating a life because they don't want the child.
In regards to rape should the state have the power to force a woman who was raped and impregnanted to conceive the child?
That is why I think Roe v Wade needs to be overturned and returned to the citizens to decide rather than nine judges or congress. I have faith in the collective citzenry forced to take a stand to make a better choice about abortion. The problem is that the "pro-Lifers" and the "pro-choicers" want to deal in absolutes. Neither group is confident that letting citizens decide will produce the result they want to see.

When life starts is a matter of opinion. Sadly 9 people who are appointed by biased people and only get replaced when they die or retire at 90 decided life doesn't start till a breath is made.

On that same note, most women who suffer a miscarriage will tell you that they feel a loss, as if the life inside of them had died. So yes I do consider a miscarriage the same only it's not willful destruction of life.

The emotional impact when my wife miscarried was HUGE. It would have been our third child.

Having been through that particular experience as just the husband, I strongly support the idea that most guys don't have a clue the level of emotional reaction a miscarriage invokes.

I know many people who will say they have x kids. Including any miscarriages.

My ex-wife went through quite a bit with her miscarriage which would have been our first child. In fact she blamed me for the miscarriage and never let me forget it, (she said I caused her immense emotional trauma by not being happy all the time) that is probably the main motivator in what eventually caused the destruction of our marriage ie her continuing to blame me for the loss of the first baby.

I wasn't going to go into that seeing as how when I reveal personal things about my life experience I seemed to get attacked by certain individuals on here. But whatever, I'm sure I'll hear something thrown back at me about this divulgence as well. C'est la vie!

I agree with them. But I don't have, nor like, children. If I did, I might have a different opinion. My big issue with abortion is when it is used as a form of birth control. Using it to terminate a fetus caused by rape, incest or to save the life of the mother, I'm o.k. with it. I'd also be o.k. with it if the fetus was malformed and the parents requested it. But if they wanted a boy and it was a girl, or vice versa, no. Probably a few other times I'd be o.k. with it, but I can't think of any right now.

I also don't agree with adding a murder count if a criminal kills a pregnant woman...until SCOTUS decides life begins with a heartbeat or conception.

I dont even think citizens should be able to decide, rather only the two people involved as well as a doctor if they decide to terminate. It is their responsibility and no one should have the right to take that choice away from them. I know a lot of people that try to make there view the law when they have never been affected by either choice.

I like how you put this, only many people to accidentally kill someone by playing with a firearm could fall into the same category. There is always the risk of a miscarriage or SIDS when starting or expanding a family.

My wife had a miscarriage and felt the same way. In simple means of looking at it the pregnancy was terminated even if not willfully.

I have never met someone who has said this but I would want to question it. I never would though, miscarriages can be really hard on people and some never let it go.

My life wouldn't really be affected if you were murdered either, but that doesn't mean I don't have a right to say killing you would be a horrible thing and seek to ensure laws are in place to prevent/prosecute your murder.

Heartbeat happens before birth, normally first breath is used. Abortion used as birth control is a good thing. We are over populated as it is and the world is not going to be able to handle it and the end result is going to be either us dieing out to lack of food or war to control what is left. Either way its not good.

If the fetus is malformed how is that any different then someone chooseing to terminate because they are unable to properly provide for the child? That is a common reason for terminating a disabled child before they are born.